A while back an anonymous person mailed me a giant rock with an insulting remark attached to it. I interpreted it as a form of intimidation and I called the police. They sped over to my house, took finger prints off the rock, crime scene photos, interviewed all of my neighbors and roommates, interrogated the Fedex employees, ran the prints through the database, enhanced the security video feed to get a perfect image of the perps face and put an APB out across America. They apprehended the suspect almost instantaneously and imprisoned them for the rest of eternity, justice served.
Actually none of that happened. It was, after all… just a rock in the mail.
I know that right now you may have the thought running through your head, “Wait a minute Urban Scout. How can you write a blog called Calling the Cops vs. Rewilding when you yourself called the cops!?!” I know it may seem hypocritical for me to write about this. But I think it actually provides me with the perfect context to write about why calling the cops feels, or rather felt, stupid and what we can do about these kinds of things in the future.
Blame it on my obsession with the show Law and Order but I believed that, in spite of their underlying purpose of keeping business and commerce protected, that they still would have to do some kind of protecting and serving of people. I always assumed that they at least protected people in some way or other. When I had a civilian reason to call the cops, an anonymous person harassing me, I called them up. The phone call lasted about a minute and a half.
Cop: Hello. Portland Police department.
Scout: Um. Hi… Uh… Someone mailed me a rock with an insult attached to it. I guess I’d like to file a police report?
Cop: What’s your name and address?I tell him.
Scout: I think its like a threat or something.
Cop: Alright it’s in the computer. Goodbye. (Click)
I wrote on my blog that I “called the police” and that they didn’t help me (duh!). That half minute conversation which went no where, caused a slew of teenage anarchists to attack me all over the web (probably some of the same group who sent me the rock to begin with). They called me a snitch and a narc and all those other secret police title insults. Before this, I did not understand that to anarchists (which I don’t identify as because most of the people who identify as anarchists that I know act like fucking assholes to each other), you can’t call the cops even for normal day to day policing type stuff. Whoops! (as a side note, how do anarchists feel about more serious things like abused women calling the cops?)
They don’t understand how I see the police. I don’t see them as part of my culture. I don’t think of them as “my police”. In fact… I don’t even see them as human. I see them as a different kind of animal. A civilized predator. I deal with them much in the same way I would deal with an aggressive bear. Stay calm. Don’t intimidate. Don’t run. Act nice. If they assault you, play dead. Respect them (as predators who could fuck you up without retribution). I don’t respect them as people who deserve my respect, but rather as powerful creatures whom demand my respect by using the threat of violence and death. Much like a loaded firearm; I respect a loaded fire arm not on moral grounds, but simply because it can kill me.
If you fight a police officer on their own ground, meaning, they have a uniform on, a weapon on their belt a radio on their chest, then they will do their job: keep you in line with violence. When someone commits an act of violence to someone higher on the hierarchy, the hierarchy must retaliate with greater violence. One time my friend stuck her tongue out at a cop who then ran up and twisted her arm. Her gesture assaulted him symbolically and he met her assault with a greater one manifesting the violence in the physical. Must keep the sheep in line. For this reason, I do not go to protests or any event that may bring out the police. Generally if I see the police, I turn and walk the opposite direction. Like bears, they have a language you can understand and read, but sometimes individuals will act spontaneously. Best to avoid them altogether.
When viewed this way, I neither see them as “good” nor “evil” but rather as serving a particular function in the urban ecosystem of civilization, of which I have tried to separate myself mentally as much as possible. I don’t see them as “my police” but rather “the police”. In this way, I don’t feel particularly bad about sicking them on someone who has fucked with me, the same way I wouldn’t mind sicking a bear on someone who has fucked with me. But really, I didn’t “sick” them on anyone. I filed a police report so that a legal record would exist that showed a history of intimidation if these people continued to harass me. I didn’t expect them to help me find out who wanted to intimidate me and they didn’t.
If we think of them as a large street gang (paid for by our own taxes to assist in forcing us to pay taxes…) we can see the unpredictable nature of their actions. Calling them because you need their help doesn’t necessarily mean they will help you. In fact, they might end up shooting you dead in your own house on a simple matter. Don’t invite them unless you understand the gamble. Know how to treat them, etc.
I grew up with a friend who now works as a police officer. While I see the person I grew up with as my friend, when they put the uniform on they become just another cog in the machine. Well, a cog with a gun and the full support of those in power and legal system. I wouldn’t think to make friends with one of them, but as ordinary people, I don’t mind them anymore than any other member of this culture. I hate generalizing people as anything, and particularly as “cops”. But while I hate “cops” I don’t hate people, who make up the organization of “cops”.
Enough about cops. So when someone harasses me… Who do I call? A problem exists here; I want to deal with things on a community level, which may mean doing things outside of or above the law. If we can’t rely on the police to solve our problems, to make us feel safe, then what other methods do we have? If we ignore the law and start solving our own problems, we may come under fire by the law itself. So in order to create a supported community, do we have to break the law? When community policing turns criminal, only criminals will act as community police? Obviously, in some instances, not calling the cops can land you in a lot more trouble with the legal system than calling them. So… you know. Every instance is particular and I never recommend any blanket dogmas like, “under no circumstances should you call the cops”.
It all depends on the crime. Things like murder, can’t really avoid the legal system. But for smaller things like anonymous intimidation and threats, doing your own detective work can feel rewarding and gratifying. If you like mysteries, than you’ll love it. My thirst for mysterious came from my training tracking animals. As a tracker, you learn the basics of investigation and following leads. I used these skills to find out the identity of “Hippie Scout” when he wrote into the Mercury to challenge me. And I used the same skill set to track down the identity of the person who mailed me the package.
After receiving the package I made a list of clues. The package was addressed to Urban Scout. This means that the person knew of me as Urban Scout and what I do as Urban Scout, which limits them to a small number of people, since Rewilding is a very small subculture. The packing slip listed my business as “Domesticario Inc.” This implied that the person who sent it understood the concepts of rewilding (or some basic anarcho-primitivism stuff) and were calling me domesticated as some form of insult. The package came to my new house before I gave out the address. This meant that someone passing through the house in the two weeks that I lived there, or one of the other roommates had given my address out. My first impression was that the roommate named “Jack”, who also goes by “Finn”, could be the culprit since he is vegan and had argued with me about some things and overall seemed pretty shady. Although, he acted nice enough and we had started to make a friendly bond and I thought he was fine, if a little simple minded and immature (but an AMAZING fiddle player).
Since every Fedex package has a tracking number, I looked up where the package came from. It came from a particular store in Emmeryville CA, or really Oakland California. This automatically looked pretty bad for Jack, since he had just moved up from Oakland. The paranoia running through me was hard to contain. I called the Fedex office and asked to speak with an employee who had been working the day before (the package was shipped over night). They told me that a woman had mailed the package. I called the Portland Police and filed my police report. I wanted to get the surveillance footage from Fedex, but they wouldn’t give it to me. I wanted to see how my roommates would react once I told them that I called the police. I also lied and said that Fedex was mailing me a picture. Jack immediately “had to go to the store” which I could tell meant, “call and warn his friends”.
Of course, body language can’t convict anyone, but what you do with your body can. I moved out immediately, but I came back a couple weeks later to get a few things when I noticed a letter on the table addressed to “Jack, Teenage Anarchy” from a girl in Oakland, CA. I snapped a photo of the handwriting with my cell phone and went home where I matched it with the handwriting on the Fedex slip. It was ridiculously the same person. Now, not only did I have her first name; Naomi, but her return address as well. Clearly, these aren’t people who know how to cover their tracks very well (or don’t care).
After I uncovered Naomi’s identity and location, I didn’t do anything with this information. I simply have it. Should the need ever arise. In the end, no harm came of me. However, this girl has an affiliation with the vegan group in SF that pied Lierre Kieth in the face. If I lived in San Fransisco and could have done some surveillance myself, and would have easily found the identity of those people too. And really, I could have pulled some favors and had friends down there do that for me, but I didn’t want to drag anyone else into it. Instead, I find it best to do nothing in response. After all, their stunt back-fired and won her national publicity which boosted the sales of her book tremendously. Clearly these aren’t activists who understand tactics. And thank goodness for that.
I like that story because for me, I know that I can rely on my wits to do the sleuthing for me. I knew I would find out who sent the rock in a matter of time. With this information, I feel safe. The anonymity of the rock scared me. Knowing that Naomi sent it and that Jack gave her the address (perhaps he coaxed her into sending it?) makes me feel at ease. It gives a name and face to the attacker, should I ever need to follow up on it. Either on my own, with my community, or with the police or legal system.
If we want a community that doesn’t require the police, we need to get serious. We need to stop acting nice. We need to take sides. When I found out who sent the rock, and that it had come through Jack, he had already moved out of the house and off to another city. What if I hadn’t moved out, but figured out it he had done it and held a house meeting. What would we have decided to do? What penalty does someone pay for violation of privacy and trust? Remember, he pretended to befriend me up until I told him I called the cops (on his friends). I had no idea. Even now, my other roommates from that house still live there. Would they have kicked him out of the house? He left anyway. Beat him up? No. They would have, at the most, whined about it (but without raising their voice) and then told me to get over it.
When Lierre Kieth called the police after being pied by Naomi’s friends, I wrote a comment of support on the San Francisco indymedia page. I wrote:
“This behavior is insane, and not surprising. I don’t understand why people are all like, “don’t call the cops”. What other accountability is there? Are there anarchists who will hunt down these three assholes and beat the fuck out of them? I didn’t think so. As much as I wish I could beat the fuck out of people who harass women (and men) like this, I’d end up going to jail when they called the cops on me. That’s sort of the joke of anyone saying “don’t call the cops”. It comes from a privileged position of not being the one who got fucked with. Let’s fuck with you and see what choices you have. It’s easier to bitch at someone for calling the cops then it is to come up with a different choice that brings balance and justice. Not that cops do that, but it’s the only choice we have cultural support for. I completely stand behind Lierre. If it wasn’t obvious already. I say let’s not let this kind of bullshit happen again. Let’s get serious about defending ourselves from psychotic people like this. Ideas?”
Of course, no one really gave this any thought, and John Zerzan on his radio show (the fox news of anti-civ) mis-quoted me as saying I only said “she didn’t have any other choice” and of course, no one talked about actual solutions to create and enforce community policing. Ironically, if I ever see Jack again, I am much more likely to start crying and asking him why he acted like my friend and betrayed my trust, than I am to physically assault him. Does that make me the better person? I don’t think so. Maybe he does deserve a good lickin’.
How can we even hold people accountable if they just keep running away (like you Jack) with their tail between their legs, from anarchist flop house to anarchist flop house. Welcome to the “anarchist” subculture of children who wear masks while pieing middle aged women and who skip town when they have their identity discovered. Even if they were hunted down and physically assaulted… is that really their punishment? Does that actually change them? Make them accountable? Maybe they don’t care. What about Banishment? How can you banish someone from a subculture where everyone is a transient, changing their name and city every other month?
As activists we sort of have this idea that “we’re all in this together” but the reality is that we are not. Theoretically we should be helping each other, but instead are malicious and vindictive. “Horizontal Hostility” they call it. I assumed that they were part of my community to begin with, and not enemies from the start. This only happened because I moved into a house with strangers (fellow activists, right?), and didn’t think that it mattered. Most people don’t know me as Urban Scout, so I figured none of these people would. But I guess as “anarchists” they knew about me and secretly hated me? Note to self: never move in with strangers. Especially those who identify as anarchists. Similarly, Lierre Kieth was pied in a foreign city, by strangers in a subculture that basically has to hate her. Where was her posse? She didn’t know she needed one until then. To start creating community policing we need to no longer assume that strangers, regardless of subcultural or cultural affiliations, stand as our allies or as part of our community.
I will leave you with several questions to ponder. How do we start building a community where we no longer feel we need to call the cops? How do we define who lives in our community and who doesn’t? Did the conflict arise between a community member, or a stranger? What kinds of accountability will we have, and what kinds of consequences will we have to hold people accountable? How do we deal with outsiders intimidating us? How do you deal with something like rape? Murder? Assault? Theft? Sit down and really think about these things. Grab a member of your community or gather them all up and have these conversations.
In the end, I have a huge community of support and have no need to call the police. I used my wits, and my friends to do the work I needed to do to feel safe again. Before this happened, I didn’t know that existed for me. Now I do. I know who I can trust, and who is there for me. I now know that when something like this happens again, there is a much more powerful force to call on than the cops. And I’m here for those people as well.
38 responses to “Calling the Cops vs. Rewilding”
If I read you right, you moved in with strangers that you *thought* were part of your community because they were of a similar-seeming subculture. Easy mistake to make (Heck, I’ve picked past significant others this way).
So sure, a shared worldview and wardrobe grease the wheels of new friendship, but the things that matters most are loyalty/trust, tolerance/open-mindedness, generosity and responsibility. These matter far more than having the right beliefs, the right style, or any other thing that seems to most define me. But it’s hard to find this stuff out, whereas it’s EASY to observe someones style and opinions.
Loyalty/trust takes time. This is why I’ve never dumped an old friend. Even if we end up in totally different places in life, just the fact they stuck with me is worth more than 100 shared beliefs.
Tolerance/open-mindedness doesn’t *seem* to matter when you find someone that you’re very similar to, but you will change and THEY will change–I guarantee it– and the only way you can test this is to make sure you’re NOT similar in some way… and have that NOT wreck the relationship.
Generosity and responsibility… because, well… mooches and misers just don’t cut it in real community. Ever.
I think this has only become more real to me in our current struggles finding a place to live and a way to support our family. Family and loyal friends have become much more important in a very practical way. I think this is what Dmitry Orlov talks about when he says community can’t be “fabricate” just because it’s a “good thing to do”. If it’s going to last, it’s got to be more real than shared opinions or aesthetics.
ridiculous
@ mt.goat: which part? elaborate.
Hey Peter, is this Naomi too? did a bit of sleuthing of my own, haha (not really, just looked up the Lierre reference, and this was at the top of the list, didn’t think it was you even though they use your name… http://www.youtube.com/user/peterbower1
Hey Emily, yes exactly. That’s how I knew they were connected to the same group.
Yeah, the “Domesticario” label must be a thing with them… Hey I used to be vegan too, for ten years, so I totally know the type of people, though we called them the Vegan Police, haha, how funny is that! Then I moved to Portland and fell in with your line of thinking, in theory (though I never met you!) and moved on to other things, like supporting local & organic farmers (I also had Thyroiditis, from eating too much SOY! So it was a health decision for me too)… it’s amazing what someone’s diet can label you as, that’s another reason why I stopped being vegan.
BTW, I bet they paid A LOT for overnighting a big rock!! haha! You think they would want to spend what “little” money they have on more worthy causes, like, I don’t know, a new band patch for their jacket, or something black for their wardrobe, or a new 7″ record, or a handkercheif, or blah blah blah…
Hahaha, yeah. Well, they used The GAP’s fedex number to ship it. It’s a common thing, steal a huge corporations fedex number and use it to ship your stuff for free. Fedex does not check to see if you work for the company you say you do. The corporations are shipping millions of dollars a day and they actually just don’t care. They factor the loss in with everything else.
thank you again scout
i find it refreshing to here your voice in this story, so genuine. once again asking the hard questions.
what the hell, man some people.
i used to think of myself as an anarchist, probably still am deep down but i grown away from the crowd, there is something about the rigidity of thinking, the eagerness for things to be black and white, good and bad. its really not healthy, but is so attractive when your a young punk.
when i look around at my peers from that time im usually embarrassed, they are exactly the type i could imagine doing something like this.
i want to have faith that all people are ultimately good, and that civilization and twisted contemporary culture twist people to do twisted stuff. but when it comes from people that are suppose to be our allies its a little disheartening.
i appreciate you pointing to us to to support others in this kind of situation.
i wonder what the appropriate step is now? say she was dangerous?
i one time worked on a farm CSA. it just so happened that the people on the farm were somehow tied to a circle of of really tragic addicts whos behavior was twisted and often criminal. i had the experience that the time they spent on the farm with us (relatively healthy people, being supportive) had a positive effect on there behavior.
what do we do with Naomi in the future? do we punish her? or do we support her as we might an addict?
good on you for taking things into your own hands, i often forget we have that power. as long as we dont turn into vengeful vigilantes.
Hello. First time commenting. . . .
I feel you, Scout. I struggle with what our “security culture” will look like with no trust, no accountability, etc. I struggle with how open to be, and am betrayed, stolen from, and spoken ill-of. It’s frustrating to me that these games are just that: games, that are indicative of more serious issues. Very dangerous to think of active resistance as a game, I believe. Even more dangerous to masquerade as part of a resistance movement if you’re only playing, or your community can’t withstand state scrutiny, or you have no allegiance to anyone, anywhere, whatsoever. Reminds me a pa passage in Jensen’s latest book where he reminds an interviewee that he used to work at Pelican Bay, and of a young, long-institutionalized inmate who confessed to Derrick just prior to his release that he wasn’t sure what to do, but that “he didn’t care about anybody”. Our whole culture is institutionalized and these peeps you describe are victims of a culture who then make victims, in turn, of their peers. Our sympathy for the victims of our culture should not impede our ability to cease their victimization of others. It’s just another paradigm of pathological pacifism.
I think you touched upon a lot very accurately in your latest blog, and I’m just here to give my support if it can help. You did the right thing, Scout, by calling the cops. Never thought I’d type those words, though, but you did. 😀
Cheers.
Hey Anthro Punk and Danny. Thanks for the support. 🙂
What is it with anarchists and hateful cream pies in the face? Is smashing a plate full of “cow mucus†on someone’s head somehow the ultimate humiliating vegan punishment? It sounds somehow innocuous and absurd, but this is just hiding violence behind a clown face. When I watch the video of Lierre Kieth being assaulted by a group of masked attackers and their camera guy, the sugar coating does nothing to disguise the premeditated brutality and intimidation of the act. Similarly, the anonymous rock in the mail. It makes me sick.
How can we define or act as a community when so many of the relationships in question are tenuous at best? Sharing a handful of mutually held ideas, while living or even working in proximity, does not give a common identity or true sense of responsibility to the future generations. How can we create meaningful consequences for the health of our communities without first belonging together and to a place?
Wow Scout,
The tragedy of your rape is astounding. I think all victims of domestic and non-domestic dispute feel safer having your horrible experience lumped into and then theorized upon in their behalf.
Good job on the detective work, Pete, you’re a genuine retard.
Fuck off,
the anarchists.
LOL. Thanks “anarchists”, (Thor? Jack? Wes?) for proving my point 1000X over.
Wrong, but the point is that you’re fucking insane. And yes, it was clearly proven.
Insane in the membrane (went insane, got no brain!)
Excellent Post Urban Scout. Very insightful.
Definitely not me. I still respect you.
best
Thor
I half-accidentally stumbled on this site, and am not a vegan nor a vegetarian. I suppose some people believe I should feel like a lesser person because of that – but I don’t. I eat locally grown meat and game, which I think is fair enough.
There are two big things that I found myself thinking about after reading this text and reminiscing on some of my own (similar) experiences. Firstly, that so many people who call themselves anarchists are bigoted, hypocritical and very dogmatic. They see the world as a big fuck-up that can only be solved if everyone else picks up their way of living, and their moral code. To me that’s not anarchy but more like fascism.
The other thing is, that in where I live, the police are seemingly very different to what it’s like over there. I don’t see the police as my friends, but yes, I have called them many times. If the safety of me or my loved ones is being threatened, I’d rather solve the situation by calling the police, than having someone get hurt because of some idiotic anti-government belief.
This is, because there are two levels to everything: theory and practice. In theory the world would be a better place if we could govern ourselves and solve problems within our communities by talking. The reality is, that I might get the shit kicked out of me if I try to rationalize with an aggressive drunk for example.
Oh and by the way, what difference is there between anarchists assaulting middle-aged women because they “think the wrong way”, and cops assaulting activists because they “think the wrong way”? I actually think the cops are more justified to use force, because middle-aged women rarely throw rocks and bottles at activists.
Just my two cents on the subject.
I also came across this site by accident and found it very interesting, and entertaining.
A few thoughts, I am not really against anarchists as such, or vegans, but pretty much all the anarchists I have come across (bar one, who decided to get into mainstream politics!) have a petty in-group mentality, as do a lot of vegans I have met (though definitely not all of them).
Generally speaking, anarchists, and vegans too, in western countries are pretty ignorant of their own privilige in being able to make such lifestyle choices. How many of them have ever lived (not just backpacked through, but actually lived) in a developing country even close to what the locals live at? In a lot of developing countries it would be close to impossible to live as a vegan and not suffer from malnutrition and other health problems, especially when living at the level that most of the locals live at. If they are thinking that just people in western countries should be vegan, and not everyone else, fair enough, although that also doesn’t seem a very well thought through position.
A lot of these anarchists probably work for money too (or collect benefits) from the system they are supposedly trying to destroy. What hypocrisy! If they are serious about their ‘anarchy’ they will start to live moneyless lives like a few true radicals out there, and then discover that being an anarchist actually involves responsibility.
Anyway, sorry for the rant. I have appreciated the few articles I have read so far.
Much luck for the future
You are fucking stupid Michelle. Read a book, or some theory, and then engage in debate. Urban Scout, Derrick Jensen, Lierre Keith, and many people advertised on this website work jobs that get them money to buy things with. Sometimes one needs to use the master’s tools to take down the master’s house. You are totally missing the point of being anti-authoritarian and anti-civilization, you ignorant tool.
“Sometimes one needs to use the master’s tools to take down the master’s house.”
Using the master’s tools has to end some time doesn’t it? Otherwise you risk being dependant on what you are supposedely trying to free yourself from. With that in mind, shouldn’t you being developing your own tools rather than always using ‘the master’s’?
What is your point about being anti-authoritarian? I can think of a few good ones, but it seems some people are ‘anti-authoritarian’ for the sake of being anti-authoritarian. That doesn’t seem like a well reasoned approach to me. It doesn’t give any answers.
It’s easy to destroy something, and so much harder to create. But it’s the creating something better that is the part that is more important, and which few people want to do because it isn’t as easy as the tearing down.
Your post, Emmeline, didn’t really do much to inspire me to want to join you in your cause, and didn’t even enlighten me as to what you are actually trying to achieve. Rather than react, can you articulate what it is you are trying to achieve, and how? Thanks.
Urban Scout, why do you let ignorant tools post in your comments who want to have flame wars? I don’t have the energy or time to type this shit out. Can someone else tell Michelle why she’s a fucking idiot?
Emmeline LeStrange: Why do ignorant tools like yourself post comments in blogs to incite flame wars? I don’t have the energy or time to type this shit out. Can someone else tell Emmeline LeStrange why she’s a fucking idiot? Sigh. Anarchists = Self-Deluding Narcissists who are too STUPID to be FASCISTS.
LULZ to the narcissistic grass-munching ewe (read: sheep bitch) who named herself after a Brooke Shields character.
Urban Scout, why do you allow misogynists to post on your website? Is it because you compare getting a rock in the mail to rape?
No wonder the left is a laughing stock. No wonder the market extremists, neo-cons, and fascists are eating our lunch. You people (commenters here) need to focus on your _real_ commonalities in the face of an insane world, and not let minor differences in outlook and methods continue to destroy any chance we have of solidarity in overthrowing the ruling powers and memes that have this planet on its knees.
By the way, unless someone has a plan for genocide (or at least mass sterilization) of 6.95bn people, real anarchy in practice will never happen. Pandora’s box has been opened, and can’t be closed. Humans will organize and use technology and fight the evil, violent forces that they perceive anarchists to be, even after a fall. Their minds have to be changed as to how to organize and how to use technology; they will never buy into freedom from security at the hands of little cruel punks like you.
Oh, also Chrysler, you dumb fuck, Emmeline LeStrange existed in the novel Blue Lagoon long before the movie, you fucking idiot. Blue Lagoon is a primitivist novel that has great significance to this website. It’s too bad Scout doesn’t do a review of the book or the novel. The movie is also fucking wonderful, primitivist and great. There is also nothing wrong with naming oneself after a character associated with Brooke Shields. You’re just an ugly fucking stupid misogynist. Fuck you. Fuck misogynist primmies. Rock on 80’s Brooke Shields and Blue Lagoon.
coo coo!!! People are so controling and bored. Sending out threats, is akin to war tactics and really is just plain dumb.Especially if it is over a vegan issue. Jesus – i dont see the vegans worrying about how the products they use are detroying the planet, all those fake leather shoes and such, dyes in their clothes, all the things that kill so many creatures, animals and the ecosystem.
the problem with vegan, or antyhing similar and holed into one genre is that it ignores the system as a WHOLE, a WHOLE ECOSYSTEM — needs all it’s pieces to function.
The problem is not with eating meat, or not eating meat – the problem is mass scale farming and over population. The first, we can grow our own, but really is there enough room? and the second — nothing we can do but not have our own babies, and that isnt gonna happen.
BAsically i am going off, but sending a rock with threat? fucking DUH people???!!!! I was once a vegan for health reasons, and you people are embarassing, bored and the sad example of civilizations end result.
Urban Scout: I respect your ideas on rewilding and am constantly excited by them and the possibilities they hold for our collective future. Thank you for your contribution to the critique on civilization.
With that being said I was very disappointed to read this post of yours. You stated that you do not identify as an @, but you have clearly had some interaction with those who do. (seems like some pretty negative interactions) It appears to me, based on your words, that you have heard, or read, certain slogans by @’s (don’t snitch etc) and either not been offered the analysis behind them or not bothered to find them out yourself. I imagine it has been a combination of the two. It sucks if the former is true; as a self identified @ I try to take great pains to articulate why I say and believe the things I do, with those who may not comprehend the meaning behind slogans and such.
On the other hand the questions you pose (regarding rape etc) are things that are discussed over and over within various anarchist communities. You seem to paint a picture of immature vegan/hate-edge kids as the norm of @ community. Perhaps in your experience, and maybe in your area, this is true, but it is not the case everywhere.
This comment section is not the place for me to get into my personal @ critique of cops and calling the cops but I would ask that instead of assuming your audience has not considered most (if not all) of the questions you pose, you actually attempt to engage in actual dialogue. (the internet is a Horrible place to do this) I have a feeling you’ll find out you have a lot more in common than you think. (And again, most @’s I know have a much more nuanced critique of cops and snitching than you give us credit for.)
Till we all are free!
@Slick You can only call it “snitching” if you share an ingroup and it implies disloyalty.
In Scout’s case, it was his housemate who was disloyal and violated trust. Scout certainly doesn’t owe any loyalty in return to douchebags like that.
It’s silly for the douchebags that betrayed Scout to then turn around and cry that he betrayed THEM. WTF did they expect? They don’t expect accountability because they have no moral compass outside of their own groupthink.
It’s also emblematic of some of these activist cultures that they are more interested in symbolism then actually doing real work to change the world. I lived with co-opers like that in the 80s who were in Greenpeace and Earth First, and it was annoying how they did not seem to care what affect they might have on “innocent” people as long as they indulged their need for symbolic gestures to “raise awareness”. While otherwise they mostly just hung out smoking out. I think awareness was rather lowered personally.
Fortunately everyone has grown up since then, but then there is always a new generation that repeats the cycle of ignorance.
We can keep holding the space for what is possible and I think you do a great job of that @Scout.
@Mike; You’ll notice I never charged Urban Scout of snitching once in my post. I merely pointed out that the terminology he used, and was used against him, is not so simple as Both sides in this issue are making it seem. Again you’ll notice I never said Urban Scout is the one to blame in this situation. I merely expressed my disappointment at such a shallow analysis at the roles cops play in our lives.
Seems like you had some pretty shitty experiences in the 80’s, just as Urban Scout has had with @’s in his life. That sucks. Fortunately anecdotal evidence doesn’t cut all of us off from each other. I hope that you, Urban Scout, and others can keep that in mind when flaming groups of individuals online.
The important thing (as far as my eyes can see) is to keep on your grind, whatever that may be, but stay open, cuz the haters you met aren’t necessarily the most articulate of us out there.
Wow. I haven’t had time to really check this thread in a while. Flame war activated! I have to work for a living people! 😉
(ignoring all the flaming)
Leslie, your hilarious.
Slick Rick,
Thanks for sharing your story, and in a respectful way.
Mike,
Thanks for chiming in as well.
If you want alternatives to the penal system as we know it, look up “restorative justice” and “victim-offender reconciliation.” For solutions beyond cops, I recommend the zine “Alternatives to Police,” from Rose City Copwatch (I have no affiliation with them, I just found the zine useful in my own investigations).
I appreciate your questions in your post, and I encourage you to try a first round of answering your questions (by searching for the work of other people who had the same questions) and include your findings in your post — I started doing that myself, and I found that I learned more and that, when reading my writing, other folks tended to feel inspired to dig deeper instead of overwhelmed by huge questions. Or maybe your ending-with-questions come from the nature education practice of “ask questions, don’t spoon-feed answers”? Maybe you’ll write a follow-up post with your findings?
From Rose City Cop Watch:
As we work to eliminate or radically change police institutions we must also work to support and build liberatory alternatives to the police. Since 2003, Rose City Copwatch has promoted discussion about alternatives to the police. In 2007 we spent time learning about historical and ongoing alternatives to the police. In 2008 we drafted the Alternatives to Police booklet based on what we learned. This zine is a compilation of case-studies on alternatives to cops. The booklet focuses on projects that don’t collaborate with the state or court system in any way. A long bibliography for further reading is also included.
Click here to download the booklet, formatted for computer viewing:
http://rosecitycopwatch.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/alternatives-to-police-draft.pdf
Click here to download a scanned copy of the booklet, formatted for booklet printing:
http://zinelibrary.info/files/alternatives%20to%20police2.pdf
Scout,
I stumbled upon your web site somewhat randomly, but thanks for writing such an interesting post.
Dealing with human beings in difficult times and at our worst is never easy, and I’ve found myself conflicted at times between cops, the legal system and a community approach to justice. When I was younger I identified with anarchist communities but fell away from them after witnessing terrible indifference to betrayal, abusive relationships, and horribly enough, sexual assaults.
As you suggest accountability and mediation were difficult. Many times parties or community couldn’t or wouldn’t even agree to a process, or offending parties would split town, go on to repeat the same pattern again elsewhere. Would incarceration have been a better solution? I don’t think so, but the anarchist model is broken too —- repeatedly seeing terrible, hurtful actions with little or no lasting resolution really made me lose a lot of respect for this community. All humans fail, and society has its problems but never have I seen the level of indifference to fellow people as I did in the anarchist world.
Thanks for sharing ex.
First and last time here, I spent 5 minutes of my life Ill never get back, what a waste.
none of the events you mentioned have to do with the actors being anarchists (or not); or speaking as if they are somehow a “unit” of “anarchists”.
you basically just had pranks pulled on you two for being corny, pretentious goof balls with poorly informed (rushed) literature to keep your iconic status alive.
no ones out to get you for real. no one cares that much.
youd probably be more accurate saying the people who attacked Lierre had vegan motives over anarchist. but however you want to form your Gaze of Evil is how you will do it.
ironically, Lierre cant take a pie to the head but is spearheading a Guerrilla Warfare organization with sign up sheets (real smart).
the arch of history curves in the general direction of justice.